Chittenden County (Burlington, Vermont) Public Defender
Andrew Gilbertson vs Dana Graham Phelps aka. DanaWanaPskana
(Mr. Phelps can be found being libeled by Sevendays alt weekly newspaper
by searching: "Dana Graham Phelps Art or Exploitation'' - be sure and scroll
to the bottom of that article for the 'Correction'...despite Cease and Desist warnings 7days refuses to retract the sickening attack)
The following is a transcript of two conversations- one on Pskana's telephone with his public defender that is a few minutes long, the second when Pskana visited Gilbertson in his Public Defender Office for about an hour. In this transcript, Gilbertson contradicts himself, is corrected by Pskana on points of law, refuses to administer evidence or seek testimony from witnesses then at the end of all this declares Pskana 'insane and incompetent' meaning he cannot discuss nor understand the law to aid his own defense! This transcript is so hysterical that Pskana has converted this into a play using this exact unchanged dialogue.
You can see some of DanaWanaPskana's tawdry, lascivious art at http://www.danawanapskana.weebly.com or some of his musical work at
http://www.myspace.com/finkgs4 or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeyoJndljSg . By the way, Pskana has an original 'Theory of Everything' which is theoretical physics, essentially Time Physics theory
that was censored by Sevendays months before the libel. The 'Theory of Everything' is what Einstein was trying to complete before his death.
PHELPS = Dana Graham Phelps aka. DanaWanaPskana
GILBERTSON Andrew at the public defender's office. P Yo what's up, man?
G Hi. What can I do for ya?
P Uh, d'ya [ did you - ed. ] get my messages?
P So where are we with the subpoenas?
G What are we subpoenaing?
P We're subpoenaing receipts for the uh people who were there to witness, we're subpoenaing the media again from the store, we're subpoenaing the Federal surveillance for the assault on Pearl St., we're subpoenaing the phone records for-
G Right, I don't know anything about an assault on Pearl St. P Uhh, when I was assaulted by the cop.
G On Pearl St.?
P On Pearl St. in front of the Federal building?
G I don't know anything about this. P Ah-
G -I mean that though - the whole confrontation that we're dealing with right happened right at City Market, right?
P The arrest continued and the assaults took place between City Market and the police department.
G Ahh, ahh I'm afraid I don't understand, I mean I know from what I understand you got arrested at City Market, so [scoffs] so what what and when happened at Pearl St.?
P He slammed on his brakes my head slammed into the bulletproof glass. I believe I explained that on a- on an answering uh message for you...
G Ah, I don't..I don't recall that at all and the- if this happened at ..at...in front of The Fed- on Pearl St. heading to the police station?
P Ya, it was right in front of the Federal Building, in front of the post office directly in line with the camera where the surveillance happens to be.
P Uh, then the subpoena from Department of Homeland Security or the City for the media they have in common from City Market. So, you know are any of those...any of those subpoenas?
G No, I- I don't plan on issuing any of those subpoenas.
P And why is that?
G Because I don't believe they'll produce any useful information.
P You don't believe that producing the media from the store will produce any useful information?
G No, we talked to them. In fact, I left you on your message and we talked to head of security, said there's no cameras where the incident took place. And..and anything else that was recorded from their cameras would have been recorded over by now.
P Ya, I mean that could very well be withholding evidence and destruction of evidence willfully if some of the angles did cover the arrest and where the arrest began is in dispute and they have to also say that none of the cameras from the store aimed out of the window and could have seen me getting to the police car where the arrest continued and I was sexually assaulted... where the cameras begin, where the produce section is, where the officer was when the arrest began and where he may have been thrown back during the violence which ensued...exiting the parking lot. They're saying that many camera stations were missing and they're also saying the camera station was missing at the key point of entry of the store. Do you find that suspicious?
G I uh I mean have you talked them about this? Because, I mean - the..all they're saying is that the cameras didn't cover the area where the arrest took place and anything else would have been recorded over by now.
P Do you believe that it would be possible for a store uh of such significance as the major food necessity vehicle for the residents of Burlington not to have coverage at the point of entry?
G Sure, I think it's possible.
P And you don't think they would have it at the parking lot or the produce section..either?
G I don't know.
P That would be a reason then to su-
G It wouldn't- It wouldn't...it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't.
P So, we'll get...we're gonna need to subpoena the media in the...the media from them. -Anyway, so they...
G -They don't *have* it.
P They may not have it but they can explain that in [ response to - ed. ] the subpoena.
G Well, they would..they're just gonna say everything's been recorded over.
P Then why don't we go ahead and charge them with uh withholding and destruction of evidence? G (laughs) Because I can't charge anybody with anything.
P How can you..well, there's been a crime are you going to...have you reported it to somebody? G I- I don't think there's been a crime.
P They withheld evidence and they destroyed willfully evidence which would have, uh..
G I don't have any reason to believe that at this point.
P Ok, despite those camera angles...(tense sigh). Alright, so what about the rest of it...what about the... were you li-...were you listening to my phone calls?
P So you don't remember any of them you just didn't-
G -I have some notes on them but why don't you tell me what you were ah - what you were thinking. (sic)
P Ahh, ok...uh, well, we...where, where are we on citizen's arrest, do you acknowledge it exists yet? G I have, you haven't given me anything that indicates citizen's arrest -exists.
P -So, so there's no such thing as citizen's arrest, alright. Alright, what about the ethics of not cross- examining the Doctor who contradicts himself within his report?
G I don't know..I don't understand what you mean?
P The Doctors says that..that I have no interest in a good charge, he's..I'm not interested in a good charge, a good result of the charge however he also in the same document uh invokes that I want to be exonerated of the charges and I want a ch-... uhh ... uhhh .. charges processed on those who I believe are guilty of crimes. That's a contradiction.
P So, are you going to cross the Doctor? Do you find it ethical not to cross the Doctor since he contradicts himself and possibly committed medical malpractice?
G Well, I believe the Doctor is accurate, now...uh, what is this..what is your situation with, uh getting another Doctor or another lawyer.
P I'm wondering...[exasperated stammering, sighing] another Doctor, another lawyer...I've retained another Doctor and I have the money to pay the other Doctor.
G 'K, do you have an appointment with him yet?
P I have to set the appointment now that I have just gotten payment. G 'K.
P What did you say to Linder? [ forensic expert chosen by Phelps for independent examination to determine competency ]
G Ahh, I told Linder what the situation was. I told him that, uh exactly what we had discussed, that the um, the court had ordered an evaluation, that we had gotten that evaluation back. The evaluation said that the Doctor thought you were not sane and not competent and that I agreed with that assessment and you know, he was free to, you know - evaluate you if you want. He said that it was not his policy to ah, to take on clients in private cases, criminal cases like this who are represented by counsel when the counsel is not, ah involved with hiring him.
P Though you were, though you were committed to hiring one through the court and the order and the mandate of providing the list of these experts for hire though, specifically- right?
G Right, but you're to hire your own, using your own money to hire a- your own.
P T- To hire my own and..and you're forced to delegate this appointment. So, you're.. you're actually required for the hiring.
G -No. I don't have to make the appointment, it's between you and the Doctor.
P That's funny because the Doctor, you're just basically saying that the Doctor saying it's between me and them.
G Right, it is. And he says he won't do it without me being involved. Without me hiring him and I said we can't hire him.
P Because you don't believe it's necessary..
G Well, and my office doesn't believe it's necessary, that's correct.
P How could your office make that determination if they don't have any experience directly dealing with me?
G Because we've read Doctor Cotton's report and-
P -The one with the contrad-
G I agree with it.
P You agree with the...you agree with the Doctor's report which has a contradiction in it? G Yep.
P You agree with the one that also stipulates the wrong date?
G I don't know which one stipulates the wrong date.
P What date was I arrested?
G I don't have that information right off the...I don't have the file right in front of me.
P Ok, well there's the wrong date. They're talkin' about August 28th, it happened September 28th. G Ok.
P That's a problem. What does it mean when you put the wrong date on a..on a legal document and put your name to that date with those events...
G I don't know, why don't you tell me?
P Is that perjury?
G [ sighs ] Not if it's a mistake, has to be willful.
P How's it...how do we know it's not willful? Why is he putting' the wrong date? Wouldn't he have known? Wouldn't he have a chance to know? The cop may get away with it but not the Doctor.
G Sure, but what is his motivation for putting the wrong date.
P That puts it into question! How would I know his motivation? Maybe it's to antagonize me. He did get a phone call. Did you get a ph- did you get the records of the phone call? Did you question the Doctor on the phone call? Did you get the phone call? Who di- Who was he talkin' to? How long was the call that he had?
G I haven't talked to him about that.
P When are you gonna do that? [ pause ] When are you gonna do that?
G I don't plan to.
P When are you going to make a motion to withdraw based on communication conflicts between you and I.
G I..the court will not let me withdraw.
P The court denied an original withdraw request by me but you may make a motion to withdraw based on communication problems which have...which have ensued.
G Right, but when I have a client who I believe is not sane and not competent, it would be unethical for me to withdraw.
P And you're reasons for findi- for declaring me insane and incompetent are?
G Because I've had con- plenty of conversations with you and have read Doctor Cotton's report and I agree with it.
P And the plenty of conversations do not indicate that I do not understand the law, that I cannot communicate with you about the law or aid my own defense?
G Ya, correct.
P You believe that uh the subpoenas uh requests do not aid my defense and do not distinctly connote or denote of any kind a rational understanding of the law?
G That's correct.
P So I'm asking you for subpoenas and I'm not able to aid my defense or communicate in any way about the law.
G That's what I believe!
P Do you understand that's a conflict?
G It's a...it's a fact that you and I disagree. [ inaudible overlap in dialogue ]
P -Do ya- Do ya- Do you ha-
G I- I - I have an obligation to a client that I think is not sane and not competent.
P Ya, but I question you on the belief though, you're...you're...you're ability to understand whether or not I'm competent or incompetent. Um, can -do you a conflict of interest?
G [ stammers ] What do you mean a conflict of interest?
P Do you have any conflict of interest? Do you know somebody who would...who pertains to the other s- ...the other side of the case, do you-
G -If I had a conflict of interest, I would have dropped the case. P D- are you a member of City Market?
G I am not.
P Did you, uh.. did you find out whether the members of the City Market, any of the staff dealing with this in the court, if the Doctor is, if any of the judges are, if the prosecutor is, if any of the transcribers are, the staff I've interacted with are?
P Are you going to find out if they are?
G I'm not.
P You don't feel there would be a conflict of interest whatsoever there? G I do not.
P Alright, see...what else here. Alright, I think I- think I'm good with ya now. Any.. what's your game plan there, I'm listening' to you now, uh counselor so what's your game plan what do you want from me on Tuesday?
G Well, I think the court's looking to see if you, uh...had done your evaluation or at least have set up an appointment with your separate evaluator.
P Alright, you understand I'm going to make a motion for your withdraw based on precedence that you are unwilling to look up?
G You can...you can move the court to do whatever you like.
P Uh, why do you think it took you tw-...two weeks to get back to me on these, on these uh questions?
G Well, I didn't think, uh...I don't think a lot of your questions are very relevant to this case.
P Did you make the CIA hand gesture at any time during the anteroom meeting that I had with you initially before we had court the first time?
G And that's a great example. No.
P I'm just asking you counselor, I did not verify that. I need to ask you, that's what I distinctly saw. So you did not actually make a curled forefinger and then your middle finger and your ring finger were not together and you did not separate that from your pinky intentionally?
P And, it's not possible that you d-...d-..did...you did that by accident either?
G I, I don't make hand signals.
P I'm just checkin' with you. That's what I di...I saw that. So you are not actually CIA, I mean of course not...is that right?
G [ laughing ] That is correct.
P And you're not a Freemason by any chance, are you?
P Well, I appreciate you answering me directly I'll see you in court on Tuesday, thank you very much for uh, your defense.
[ end ]
END OF PHONE CALL
Dana walks into Gilbertson's Public Defender's Office wearing a wire, unbeknownst to Mr. Gilbertson! What fun!!
Andrew Gilbertson What's goin' on?
Dana Phelps I just wanted to clarify some things, get some answers and go over a few things with ya, uh...First of all, let's see, so you agree 100% with that report by Dr. Cotton?
P Every statement?
G I agree with the report's conclusion.
P Are there any contradictions or problems in the report?
G I don't see any that are significant enough. You wanna point them out to me?
P Ya, I- I wouldn't mind and thank you for the opportunity. The first thing is that, um if I'm only interested in a dismissal, why am I fighting and paying money to uh, to avoid one?
G To avoid a dismissal?
P Ya. I can get a dismissal from an incompetency verdict. From..from being found incompetent.
G Right, the State could dismiss it.
P So far, every attorney has told me that the most likely scenario is that I'll be..the cas-... the charges will be dismissed with the, uh...contingency that I go and have a psychiatric treatment program of some kind. So, umm... if I'm paying for another evaluation specifically to avoid a dismissal, how am I only interested in a dismissal?
G You get another evaluation to avoid a dismissal?
P I don't want a dismissal. I want to go to a trial-
D ...so that I can present evidence and either be acquitted or found not guilty or the
charges would be dismissed with a different result but it wouldn't have a psychiatric drug program.
P So, if I'm interested in only a dismissal like the Doctor says, I wouldn't be doing that, would I?
G That was your only concern on this? Let me find where he says that... P It's gonna be on the bottom of that page...
G This one?
P I can find it for you pretty quick-...
P Right here. "He was not motivated for a good result of the charges, he was only motivated for the charges to be dismissed. [ inaudible ]
G So, that's one of the things he says but not the only thing.
P I don't understand the relevance of that. We're focusing on one thing. That's the one thing I'm bringing up now.
G Ok. Um, 'He was not motivated by a good result of the charges, he is only motivated for the charges to be dismissed. Ok.
P Can that be true?
G Well, this report was written before you went and got an evaluation with Cot- Dr. Nash, right?
G So, how would he include that in the report?
P How would who include what?
G How would Dr. Cotton include the evaluation that you took after-
P -I didn't...
G You had the report-
P -Well, obviously that wouldn't be possible...
P But he was not correct though, was he?
G Um, he may not have bee- been correct that you only want a dismissal.
P So you don't agree...
G No, I think that you know, you are motivated for, you know a..to get the charge, you know...acquitted, right? That's what you want.
P Acquitted not dismissed?
G Right. I don't... I'm not sure if he...if he distinguishes between dismissal or acqui-...or acquittal.
P Did he say acquittal or dismissal?
G He says 'dismissal'.
P So, why do you think he's not saying acquittal or dismissal?-
G Be-...because sometimes they can both be [ inaudible ]
P Do both the words mean identical things?
P Then why would you question what he means?
G Well. yeah! So, if he's incorrect about that line then where do we go from there?
P Umm, well? We could disagree with his finding. We could disagree with that point of the finding at least.
G I agree with his finding based on our discussions, based on all of what he said, based on the fact that he is a psychologi-.. a psychiatrist and I am not, that he evaluated you. And you got a report from Dr. Nash?
P Well, before we get to Dr. Nash, let's just say...let's just say a few things. You're willing to agree with something that's been proved wrong to state.
G Proved wrong? You haven't proven anything.
P So, I am only interested in a dismissal? I'm not interested in a good result of the charge.
G What are you interested in?
P I'm interested in a good result of the charge, which in my opinion is going through the trial process, being found not guilty and ascribing charges to those who in evidence are found to have commit- ...committed crimes against me-
G -And that would go to the point where he says you don't have the [ inaudible ] to, um..."He had fixed ideas about what he would or would not..." um ..."would or would not do with these charges. He did not think it was necessary to seek his attorney's opinion. Although he could assist in cross-examination, it would be difficult for him to do so in a cooperative manner. He did not...he could not engage in plea-bargaining, as his delusional ideation extended to the legal system. "
P Uh, I've read that before.
G "So he lacks...so he insists he has no jeopardy. He- P How-
G "...believes that police...uuuh, will be charged with crimes for which they will be convicted. He did not understand his risk and he cannot acknowledge that there may be persons who do not share his opinion."
P You don't share my opinion. G On what?
P G P G P G
[ laughing ] About whether or not I'm competent. Right- -I do not share your opinion.
Ok, so I just told you that you don't share my opinion so that's also wrong, right? Ok.
So that's two points that are wrong-
-So, you've been...you've been able to read that, right? I mean you're trying to convince me that the psychiatrist is incorrect.
[ exasperated breath ] Ok. You should be. I mean, it should be perfectly obvious to you that there's gross fallacies in this report, that I'm able to aid my defense, that I'm able to communicate with you, that I understand what you're saying, that I understand what that means-
if you don't mind I - [ inaudible ] G - [ inaudible ]
P [ loud exhale ] "Has no jeopardy..." that's not true. Um, let me put it this way. I believe I had the right to go into that shopping market because I believe that the, uh...the trespass was not a legally issued trespass based on the international human right law to [ inaudible ] with adequate food in the community.
P Um, if I'm proved wrong in a court of law, I do not have the right. And I did not have the right. So, I recognize that I could be wrong, that there is risk, that there's jeopardy, I could be convicted of trespass for simply being inaccurate about the law. So, what I was..what I was doing was going to protest. I did believe they had the legal right, they would not listen, I got no help from the people in the local community to help me with the problem that I had made them aware that I was going in non-violently to get food and water, where I was [ inaudible ] the right and the legal entitlement to do so.
I.. I'd like to go over this before we get to Dr. Nash. I have quite a bit to say as...as economically as I can but you just went over a lot of points with me, I'd like to...
P So, I was willing to go through the court process and be proved wrong. If I'm willing to go through and be proved wrong then there is jeopardy. Right?
G So, why rather than go to the store didn't you file a civil lawsuit?
P Well, there's several reasons. One, I don't have the money, I don't have experience in it, I'm ...um
G [ inaudible ] ...legal...was legal.
P No. I'm saying that I don't believe it was illegal to do it because the trespass order was not a legally issued one.
G Right, and rather than challenging the trespass order, you just disobey it.
P Well, yes but in challenging the trespass order by disobeying it, it would go through the court system, evidence can be introduced and I can be proved right or wrong. It's just like occupy Wall Street. They feel they have a right to be there. If they're arrested, they're probably going to get convicted because they *are* trespassing.
P In my opinion, in this...this particular case because it's a utilitarian necessity provided and regulated by the municipality they do not have the right to stem my, um..my line to food in the city for survival.
P That's guaranteed under...under law.
G That's - you have no jeopardy.
P I don't have jeopardy? How do I...How do I not have jeopardy?
G Because you told me that you got a right to do that, so.. [ inaudible ]-
P Well, in my opinion however I'm saying to you *again* , I will repeat to you that I may be wrong. I could be proved wrong in a court of law. I recognize that I could be
G P G P G P G P
-You could be wrong and then what?
Then I could be convicted and do up to one year and three months in jail.
Right? Is that jeopardy? Is that jeopardy again?
Do you think that's going to happen? If I did-
-What do you think the likelihood of that happening [ inaudible ] ...
To be honest with you, even if I was trespassing the nature of the illegality of the arrest itself would probably lead to a dismissal of the charges, anyway...in my opinion.
wrong. Right? So, is that jeopardy? What... can I... Can I get convicted?-
So, you wouldn't be convicted.
I don't believe I would be convicted but I believe it's possible.
Is that it? I mean is that clear enough about -
- [ inaudible ]
...the jeopardy, that I do...have jeopardy, right?
P Ok, so I have jeopardy, I'm not interested in just a dismissal. Let's see...I don't understand my risk, I think I've clarified that with you.. [ that Phelps does understand -ed. ]. Alright, you don't have a problem with suspiciousness. He contradicted himself and got a phone call [ that he accepted and took fir 10-15 minutes during the forensic examination, being Dr. Cotton ] and was late and insulted me. He..he..he ridiculed me a little bit. Uh..you agree that I'm not able to consult with you a reasonable degree of rational understanding?
I think you and I can have a lot of discussions about that but I do not think that when it comes down to me saying, 'Look. I don't think you've got legal ground to stand on and you disagree with me, that you don't say you're right, you're a lawyer... you know, I will take your advice.' I don't think you and I can have a discussion about what is the better thing to do.'
Um. That doesn't really answer my question. Um. Do I have the ability to consult with you in a reasonable degree of rational understanding?
I don't think you do.
So, what am I not understanding? Do you have..what is common law powers of arrest?
Common law powers of arrest. First of all, with...with all the research that you sent me you have to consider where you found it. You found it under Torte. Do you know what a Torte is?
Torte is a civil action, meaning like...ah, suing someone personally for damages. Ok? All the cases that you sent me were, uh allowed in the Vermont cases and I haven't looked up Lawson, yet...um, were about the police being the defendant to a civil suit by the person arrested saying you did not have the right to arrest him. Actually, [ inaudible ] I should say that the... the ones who have been, they didn't have the right to arrest the person because they were outside of the bounds, um and then the State came back and said, 'No, they've got a right to a, uh citizen's arrest and um the court said uh, yes they...yes they do. Um, those of course were...and, and a lot of those..the support for that was in Torte. Ok.
But it's still...yeah-
Civil action. This is not a civil action.
Ok, uh.. citizen's arrest is a defense from a suing. It is not a right that you apparently have.
If a security guard witnesses a disturbance of the peace can he, uh arrest him and
P G P G
restrain him until the cops arrive?
G He can use reasonable force to prevent a theft. It's called the shopkeeper's defense.
P To prevent a.. a theft, but not...not anything else? If you don't believe..
G To use reasonable force to prevent a shoplifting.
P To prevent theft.
P But not any other crime. Just theft?
G That is what's called shopkeeper's defense.
P I understand that but can a security guard who's not using a shopkeeper's defense put somebody under arrest for a reason other than that?
G Yes, I think they probably could.
P Ok, so somebody who is not an officer of the law...
P Can put somebody under arrest for a disturbance of the peace. G What do you mean...what do you mean, can. What's, I mean..- P -It's legally entitled.
G -you mean is there a punishment for it?
P It's...it's...it's something that..
G In a civil act-...in a civil ...in a civil suit if two...if two, you know two people are fighting outside of a ahhh...if two people are fighting outside City Market, if you go up and, you know tackle somebody, you know -
P -Bad example [ Phelps has been noted as having PTSD from the arrest and claimed assaults by an expert psychologist ]
G ...and that person sues him, you know then he can say, 'No, it was a citizen's arrest for breaching..for, uh breaching the peace, I was allowed to tackle you. To prevent you from breaching the peace.
P Ok, so..well, if you witness a breach of the peace that's already been breached then they can also arrest them.
G So, what was the breach of the peace that you observed?
P Uhh, an assault on my body, harassment. Using a word that would be...that was associated with something I was speculating to be murder and about this Mk Ultra nonsense? I was speculating something about that on my Facebook. I mean, I understand how crazy that is. Not even my own mother understands that.
P I have extensive knowledge of the Central Intelligence Agency program on...on mind control. It is very very central to New England. A lot of it was in Canada where they were wiping people's mind. It's very suspicious to me that Howard Center refused to give me any services or contact after I asked them simply to deny that they were part of that program which I fully expected them to do. If you say, ' Yo, man. Are you part of the CIA MK Ultra program?' do you expect them to say 'yes'? No, it's a ludicrous question. It's ridiculous really but they didn't answer and suspended my services. So, that says to me, maybe it's true. It is an existent system, it's in evidence, it does go on. So, my..my point is that um...
G What is the breach?
P ...is that, the person who used that word with me...
G What was the word?
P He...he used a variation on the word 'Martes' ...'Maridees'. This is a little complicated. I was on my Facebook and I was relating...
G Facebook's like a refrigerator. Wanna know how?
P Because you stick a whole bunch of crap on it, and-
G Well, that's a good, too but you open a refrigerator and look in, ya...ya.. ya know
there's nothing in there but you keep opening it up hoping there's something' good.
P Oh, that...uh, I don't understand that, I have no idea..
G You know there's nothing' in the fridge but you go look anyway? Like Facebook, you know there's nothing good on Facebook [ inaudible ]
P I disagree, I think there's great stuff on Facebook. I've made very good friends on Facebook. I've gotten a lot of valuable information on Facebook. Um, you're probably right, I mean...I am very radical and very..I agitate a lot of people on my Facebook. Um, in this particular case what...what..what was...it's a little complicated. What happened is I was watching a video, um about Roseanne Barre who speaks out about the MK Ultra program.
P About how she was coded. So, I just happened to be watching a thing about her, um the day before I posted this thing on Facebook.
P Um, then I watched and posted a thing on..on.. on my Facebook about Disney, Walt Disney and Disneyland by a man who is a researcher that has done all kinds of research and he claims that you, know that there's pedophelia stuff, that there's CIA thing, that there's underground- crazy stuff. Like, all these...you know, horrible, evil, dark prince of Hollywood kind of story. Um [ exhales loudly ] that family, with the last name 'Martes' M-a-r-t-e-s um were coming back from Disneyworld and um they...they died in a horrible car crash and they said a grandmother, a mother and a daughter all died. Um, their names happened to be ʻRoseʼ, ʻAnneʼ and ʻRoseanneʼ Martes. It also happens that I play in a band with a man named ʻMardisʼ.
G What kind of instrument do you play?
P You didnʼt listen to my music.
G I did not. Which..what instrument, I had no idea.
P Um, I play guitar, drums, bass, I sing [ sings to demonstrate a melody with no lyric ]
G Where do you play?
P Uh, guitar.
G No, where do you play? Where...where do you gig or do you guys just jam?
P Uh, I got a blues band starting uh, I have a..thereʼs a Youtube page itʼs called itʼs...with someone called The Black Tryangul on it, I have.. Thatʼs not my band name, I wanted to call it ʻSlotʼ but thatʼs like an art crypto-rock, you know crude kinda dirty grungy thing with non-pros. Iʼm used to a real slick thing, you know I work as a..a songwriter, mostly. And I had gross stage fright probably ʻcuz of my Autism or whatever, but um..Iʼve only had very few gigs. Iʼve done a lot of recording work, I had a $50,000 recording contract with a Grammy nominated producer, I worked with a multiple gold selling drummer, uhm my stuffʼs been on the radio, David Bowieʼs heard my music, Robert Smith of the Cure is on my Facebook [ personal and not fan page - ed. ] I..I have some success..endorsed by Robles Roadcases, and ScribCor guitars, um I have a classical.. a string quartet for a movie that I was commissioned to write that was completed and recorded. Iʼm a...Iʼm a pretty, you know experienced and skilled musical personality, um for what itʼs worth. So, I had posted some pretty crazy stuff on the Facebook about the ʻMartesʼ stuff. I was saying I didnʼt think it was an accident, I just thought um...I didnʼt believe...I thought it was very strange. It was the Disneyland thing, the names were all ʻRoseʼ and ʻAnneʼ and ʻRoseanneʼ and that it happened to be the same last name as the man in my band, for one thing. But then, the next...two days later I went back into the City Market and when I was checking out, I mean..just as Iʼm checking out and walking past, I actually expected him to assault me in my ear, I wore earplugs, um which you can still hear through most decibel ranges, but um..I mean frequency ranges but instead, like...he went like this, he went, [ nasty, menacing voice ] ʻMarriideeeeesʼ. Somethi- something like *that*. It was real...I mean it was real weird, and..and...and kind of disgusting the way he said it. I didnʼt put it together in my head what was happening and uh, the...the...the lady who was working behind the customer service desk said, ʻWhat does that word mean? I never heard that word before.ʼ And I just walked out. Um, then I put it together in my mind, I was goinʼ ʻWhat did he mean this time?ʼ ʻCuz like a week before I had jammed with a man named Sharkey in my band and the next day I went into City Market and he was talking about sharks just as I walked past. This is the sort of thing that happened a lot and this is why I didnʼt report it to the police because I knew that it would be very difficult to prove, I have a psychiatric history that says Iʼm paranoid and thereʼs been...thereʼs a lot more that happened at City Market that I...that I didnʼt include or that I didnʼt ever...thatʼs not part of this. There was somebody in there who every time I walked through the door he..heʼd just
look up, heʼd make eye contact with me he wouldnʼt stop looking at me in the eye, like...you know, very unwelcome...and he actually, I would walk down the aisle and I..I expected him to keep staring after me, I turned back and there he is looking at me. I thought that was aggressive. There were people laughing um..at me on sight. There was a woman who, um..as I passed her by she went like this
[ Phelps stands up, puts a thump on top of his had and makes an ʻMʼ shape with middle and ring fingers together while dancing around in a tiny circle... - ed. ]
[ laughing ] She literally did a dance like that! Like, itʼs...itʼs Pantheon. And that was outside of City Market. Um, so I felt legitimately that I was being ha-...targeted and possibly for my radical politics, my 9/11 Truth, my anti-Zionist beliefs um, or my radical science, you know...Iʼm a time physicist, a theoretical physicist and Iʼve invented something called 1 = T or 1 = ∞ . Um, no two things are alike therefore no numbers past one can be proven except to demonstrate this formula. Which if proved to be true, if thatʼs accepted in science then technically finite mathematics is over which means that you can go into a store or bank and say, ʻHere, I...Iʼm giving you a penny and by mathematical reality and physical truth you have to give me any denomination of any number because 1 is equal to all you have.
G Youʼre jumping from...from you know from physics...from physical, you know.. P Possible motiv-
G -into...into monetary theory, which is a whole different ball game.
P I disagree. Economics is-
G -Well, the whole [ inaudible ] the whole idea of money
G Is..is, you know...you go back and look at what it is, you know? What do..what do banks lend out, they donʼt bank...they donʼt... itʼs not 1 they lend out. You know..you know banks lend out..they, itʼs called..itʼs called, um..
P Fractional reserve?
G Ya, fractional reserve.-
P -9x more than they get?
G They..they loan out 9x the money that they have.
P Ya, I know.
G [ inaudible ]
P Ya, itʼs actually..thatʼs why [ inaudible] we have so much trouble. It all starts with the Federal Reserve in 1913. The dollarʼs been devalued by 99% in the last 100 years for that reason, a fiat currency. You know, I...Iʼm pretty well versed in economic history. Right, my brotherʼs actually a corporate accountant, he was CFO of Sega and heʼs very good at that stuff. But, um I was a...You must, I mean. I...I...I worked on that theory for thirteen years of my life and since Iʼm five years old, Iʼve always had that idea. It *does* apply. If you have physical reality and the mathematical reality of numbers is that 1 is the same in identity to any number over 1, then that actually would apply. The only reason Iʼm trying to establish this is because of some possibility for motivation for what they were doing to me at the market and thatʼs just a way outside thing. You could totally dismiss it and abandon it, I donʼt mind but youʼve been informed. I mean, itʼs more likely that itʼs either that, politics, um or my artwork which deals with nudity and eroticism and I can confront the CIA MK Ultra program . Did you take a look at my website?
P You want to? You want me to write it down for you?
P So, anyway harassment was...was something I was expecting. Iʼd reported to my Howard Center people. So, uhh
G Very minimalist [ referring to business card given to Gilbertson by Phelps - ed. ]
P Thank you! Yeah... [ stammering ] That was the...that was the point, man. My last one was really beautiful and then like, my email got locked out so I just had to throw ʻem away. So, I just said ʻokʼ black and white. Um, disturbance of the peace - if somebody says something to somebody with the specific intention of provoking a physical reaction, inciting them...which is aggressive, um.. My reasoning and understanding of the law in my research was that thatʼs a disturbance of the peace.
P Umm, that would be it. Umm, I wonder-
G -I think [ inaudible ] I talked to Jan [ inaudbile] about your phone call.
P The managing attorney?
G Yeah, and you know I think you know I agree with her that you know, youʼre obviously a very smart guy.
P Thank you.
G Umm, you obviously can take care of yourself. Um the issue is I donʼt think, you know with my as- you know, I donʼt think it would be fair to go through a trial and to be put on probation or put in jail. I donʼt think thatʼs fair. Because I donʼt think-
P -Iʼm having trouble believing you right now, to be honest-
G -Why is that?
P Just...your face is red, your countenance shows that your smile is upturned, I mean I...Iʼm Autistic, I interpret social signals very differently than you do and what you just did there-
G - [ inaudible ]
P Indicates to me that thereʼs something else. I think that maybe..Are you..Look, man I mean I kinda like you I donʼt wanna
G Youʼre an interesting guy! You know, I just.. I do my job and I do it the best I can.
P [ sigh ] Are you covering up for copʼs misconduct?
G No! I was just trying to blow cops up over in court because they kept circling that theyʼve got proof on video of stops and then they donʼt have.
P Alright, ok. So, ok. I understand you donʼt want me to go through a trial process and risk a conviction.
G Yeah, I donʼt think that would be fair ʻcuz I do not think...I think you have serious mental health issues and I do not think it would be fair for you to go to trial.
P You think that my serious mental health issues make it an unfair-
P Which, I mean...this is actually a very crucial point to understand. Which of my mental health issues, um...preclude me from fairness in the trial process?
G Paranoid schizophrenia?
P I do not have paranoid schizophrenia, sir. Schizoaffective is -
G - [ inaudible word ]
P ...the diagnosis.
P It is not paranoid. If you...listen, thatʼs a-
G It says you are paranoid and I generally, the way you talk to me...I think youʼre also paranoid. You just asked me if I was covering for the cops.
P Well, youʼre not willing to get evidence to prove they committed crimes against me. Why wouldnʼt I think you were?
G I am willing to get evidence, in fact my investigator who I sent over there to get a statement from both the security guys over there whoʼs typing it up right now
[ inaudible ] umm, I sent him over there to ask if the security has the video and I told you exactly what happened with the video. They said, just because he said he saw you on the video doesnʼt mean it was recorded. And if it was recorded, he said that itʼs been recorded over by now because it didnʼt actually show the interaction between you two.
P The interaction..
P He says it shows you walking in and it shows you walking out with the police officers. G So, that is an interaction.
P But not..not the assault. So, thatʼs why he didnʼt think it was valuable. He recorded over it.
G What you just said to me is the security officer didnʼt think it was valuable because I was...of an assault which wasnʼt reported.
P I mean..I mean, apparently, the police saying you assaulted them while you resisted arrest [ inaudible ]. You saying you were assaulted by them while he was trying to put you under arrest.
P No. I was...I had already submitted and I was, uh..I was cuffed with my hands behind my back and on my belly as he told me to do and he told me to roll over to my right. So, I did it without thinking (trusting him) and I...I did. And my head slammed into something about that hard [ knocks on object in room - ed. ] like that [ smacks hand into his other hand to demonstrate strength - ed. ] and my head hurt very badly. Excuse me, I donʼt mean to ..not trying to scare you. Um, it hurt dude! I mean, Iʼve had problems. I actually woke up dizzy about two weeks ago and I got sick from beinʼ dizzy, dude. And I was in the cop car, and then on the way back...and then he slammed the brakes on and my head slammed right into the bulletproof glass divider
G Did he put a seatbelt on you?
P No. No, uh it...itʼs a little...it makes me wonder why the timing was what it was because uh...he did it right in front of the Federal building, right in the only camera between City Market, ah...thereʼs no other camera, I mean that is where...the only place he could have done it and gotten a record of it. And it was right in front of Cherry..
G Why would he want a record of it?
P I donʼt know! Thatʼs why itʼs inexplicable to me. I mean, either heʼs got somethinʼ with the freakinʼ Federal security or he just...it was a coincidence or he just wanted to show he can do it ʻcuz he canʼt get caught. How do I know? But thatʼs just...thatʼs where it happened and that evidence would be available. So, we can prove whether or not that happened. Right?-
G Howʼs that aid your defense? P If he assaulted me..
G ..then you werenʼt trespassing?
P Then the uh arrest was legal?
G It happened after the arrest.
P Ok, so when I was in custody and...are you saying it doesnʼt matter how they treat me after they arrest me?
G It does matter how they treated you, it doesnʼt effect your ah- P -ability to...culpability, ability to be convicted-
G [ inaudible ] Sue ʻem! Youʼre more than welcome to do that.
P If I sue..Oh, Iʼm gonna sue, believe me. I...Iʼve been backed into the wall enough. Iʼm..Iʼm gonna sue Nash, Iʼll get to that. But, uhm in a civil case I can get the evidence from the...I can subpoena the Federal evidence?
G You can get a lawyer to do that, yeah.
P Ok, um how is it not important to see video evidence of the interaction with the cops...that you said...how...they donʼt record?-
G If..if they had it we would get it. They donʼt have it. Because I donʼt have ...I cannot in good faith subpoena him for evidence that he has said does not exist.
P The rationale for it not existing is that it was destroyed.
P So, we know there was evidence that was picked up by the surveillance but youʼre saying they donʼt record the surveillance?
G I have to go ask ʻem exactly what happened. I donʼt know if it wasnʼt recorded or it was recorded. I donʼt know which one of those two happened.
P Ok. Thatʼs a very big deal. You might wanna just go in there and just take a look at where the security cameras are
G Theyʼre different now. I talked to them about this.
P They changed ʻem?
G They said that now they cover everything. Now the video covers everything...and they [ inaudible ] it.
G [ inaudible ] they got a [ inaudible ]
P I mean..Iʼm expecting resistance because you havenʼt really complied yet but did you ever get the work order for that change?
G Why would that be useful? What would that prove?
P Because maybe theyʼre not telling the truth-
G How would that prove that you did not trespass?
P It would prove whether or not theyʼre covering up assault. G Why would they cover up assault?
P Because they want the cops on their side? I donʼt know...-
G They want the cops on their side...
P Because they collude? Because it happened on their property and they can be sued for it if they entrapped me or their ban was illegal? If I was entrapped..When I called up the City Market and spoke with the manager there, what I said was..I said, “Look...”-
G -Peggy [ inaudible ] call [ inaudible ] them Tuesday. Peggy said she called them..called them and-
P -oh, with the.. [ inaudible ]
G I donʼt know if you..I still donʼt know if youʼre gonna get a VCR. Hopefully, they are just going to ignore it.
P Whatʼs a ʻVCRʼ?
G Violation of condition of release.
P I called the cops, I called the public defender..
G Did you talk to [ inaudible ] the police?
P I did. She said that if they...if they reported it then theyʼd have to address it. That it would be-
G Hopefully they want to...hopefully they wonʼt [ inaudible ] to report it
G -I donʼt know what you told them but hopefully they understand youʼre [ inaudible ]
P They certainly not in any danger, I mean...Iʼm not, you know..
P -I was just...
G -Itʼs not the danger part that makes whether or not, you know you violated [ inaudible ]
P I honestly was confused because you had asked me, um if I spoke with them about the evidence at one point.
G Thatʼs because I was concerned that you had contacted them!
P I thought you wanted to know if I had gotten any new information about the evidence. If I had remembered this about...I never would have...Iʼm very, very strict about that kind of stuff. Thatʼs..thatʼs a misunderstanding on my part, I suppose. Um...
G You wanna give me [ inaudible ] or do you wanna keep it to yourself? Thatʼs up to you.
P Well, Iʼm ..Iʼm just simply putting it together in my mind, um..Why is it not important to give all the surveillance evidence from the time that the cop saw me, from the time that he walked around, proving all of his statements? Because that wouldnʼt be just in that one blind spot.
G They donʼt need that. Would that be important if they had it? Yes. It would be
P Why donʼt they need it? Because they donʼt need that?
G Ya, they donʼt need it. Because they have a police officer saying what he saw. And theyʼve got security people [ inaudible ] say what they saw. They donʼt need that to convict.
P Well, does that give them the right to destroy it when itʼs been asked for and requested?
G They can do what they want. Itʼs not in police custody. You know, they can do what they want.
P They can do what they want with it until itʼs subpoenaed?
G I donʼt know. I mean, it could be subpoenaed or it was...or it was, you know recorded over, um...[ inaudible ] -
P -I asked you for that subpoena, do you remember that? [ inaudible ] -
P The first meeting we had and then I wrote to the court and told them that it was ineffectual...ineffectiveness of counsel because youʼre not complying and that could be deleted because you didnʼt supply that evidence request. So, if they deleted it since I requested it that would be your fault, wouldnʼt it?
G I donʼt think so.
P If you could have gotten it and didnʼt and they deleted it because you failed as a counselor to get it-
P Then maybe itʼs your fault. I mean, I donʼt wanna get you in trouble! Iʼm just tryinʼ to get evidence and Iʼm trying to prove what happened. So, it seems to me that youʼve allowed the evidence to be erased?
G Well, after our first meeting and what he told me...I donʼt know exactly how long the tapes would be [ inaudible ] ok, before theyʼd be recorded over.
P I can help you with that a little-
G -Our first..our..our first meeting, you know I had this report from Dr. Cotton saying youʼre not sane and not competent.
G And so I did not [ inaudible ].
P Because Dr. Cotton said Iʼm incompetent, you donʼt need to subpoena for evidence?
G Well, you know I donʼt go back to the office with a file and immediately subpoena everything thatʼs imagined.
P Well, thatʼs not everything thatʼs imagined, itʼs one specific piece of evidence related to my case-
G -Yeah, but ...and I donʼt do that [ inaudible ].
G -Especially when I have the report-
P - Itʼs a [ inaudible ] matter of having a chance to believe it. So that evidence is gone because you failed to act. And yet you..-
G -Maybe, maybe not.
P Ok, maybe itʼs not. Can you go to Department of Homeland Security to get that? G I have no reason to believe they would have that.
P Is..is..is..is a food center a terror target?
G I donʼt know!
P If, um...if thereʼs a terror strike on this city, what is the most likely place that people will go in a panic? I...I just know this. They go for food. The food center has to be connected to the Department of Homeland Security surveillance apparatus. It also
is regulated by the municipality. This is a...a..this is not the same as..
G You know this? Where do you..how do you know this?
P I donʼt know, honestly how I know. Iʼm usually proved right.
G Like you will once you go to trial...
P Youʼre not being specific. What am I going to be proved right about with me going to trial?
G Well, youʼre going to be acquitted. And you -
P -I think I can be acquitted...
G have no doubt that youʼre gonna be acquitted.
P I just...how can you say I have no doubt when I just told you itʼs possible that I can be? G You can...-
P -I have grave doubts. I have grave doubts because Iʼm not being...Iʼm not getting evidence I need to prove the case. But I am overwhelmingly confident that the..that the cops have committed multiple counts of perjury on that report. That report is a piece of garbage. Excuse me, itʼs riddled with...with...the guy tries to cover his ass, I mean heʼs um..He says that...that he called the cop to come to the store then he saw me go in there
P But..but he was already there. There was two c- cop cars there and no new cop cars showed up. So, thatʼs a lie.
G Ok. Or a mistake.
P [ incredulous scoff ] He mistakenly said that his officer wasnʼt on the scene when he was? He mistakenly says that he sent somebody to my house when he didnʼt? He mistakenly didnʼt know that the officer was there already right next to him? Thatʼs a mistake and not a lie?
G Why would he lie about any of that?
P So he could not be convicted of perjury or entrapment.
G So, he deliberately misrepresented the facts- why?
P Because [ sigh ] I..I-
G Why would he lie about requesting another police officer if one was standing there right next to him. Why would he lie about that?
P My guess is because he may have believed that if he didnʼt say that...I was very vocal about the possibility for entrapment on my Facebook and other places. Maybe they got wind of that? Maybe they thought it would be entrapment if they didnʼt say that? Maybe, you know h- how-
G [ inaudible ] know what entrapment is. They did not entrap.
P Did they try to prevent the crime?
G They saw a crime occurring and they went out and they tried to arrest you for that.
P No, they waited for the crime to occur.
G [ inaudible ]
P They went to the store and waited for me to commit the crime.
G Did they tell you to go to City Market?
P They didnʼt tell me I could commit murder either but you donʼt wait for a murder to happen before you arrest somebody for-
G -If they said, “Hey, Dana. Itʼs the police. Go down to City Market. Why donʼt you come down and talk to us?” And you came down there and they said, “Weʼre arresting you for trespass.” Thatʼs entrapment.
P Yes, itʼs entrapment. Yes.
P But thereʼs a limit of the [ inaudible ] of entrapment, so..-
G -They would have to...they...that [ inaudible ] that you would have not committed the crime but for the actions of the police.
P Ok! Um, why would he lie? I donʼt know but he did. There were two cops cars there. So, he lied. If heʼs lying on the report in one spot, why can he be trusted on another spot of the report?
G So why would he lie about that? [ inaudible ]
P -If [ stammers ] I can only speculate on his motivation but Iʼm asking if heʼs lying on one part of the report, why is it not important to establish?
G You can..you can establish lots of different things. Apparently, you want something that could have been established by the video of you guys walking...of you walking in and then you walking out in handcuffs. Thatʼs something thatʼs already been established.
P When I defended myself from the cop, he flew back across the room a little bit. That would have landed him in a different section of the store which would have been picked up by cameras. So, the interaction did..it was-
G [ inaudible ]
P Because he was..he was...ʼCuz Iʼve been in that store hundreds of times and I...I know where those little cameras are, I used to look at ʻem all the time.
P Theyʼre covered in the produce section, theyʼre covered in that aisle, in the isle that goes to the left by the health food section which is right within the central cross- section of the store, the cross of the store. Thatʼs where he was. That was evidence that I did resist arrest. And that would show that I did it. That interaction would have picked up. So, I donʼt know why...I can only speculate why he would have lied about it but perjury is perjury, isnʼt it?
G Thatʼs if he knowingly misrepresented it.
P Thatʼs what Iʼm saying he did.-
G -Why would he knowingly misrepresent that? It doesnʼt make any sense that he would
P -Well, how would I know? ʻIt doesnʼt make any sense that he would do thatʼ, well maybe he doesnʼt know what entrapment is? Maybe heʼs not a qualified cop- he didnʼt read me my rights. I mean, h- how am I supposed to guess why the guy didnʼt...why the guy lied? Iʼm just saying he definitely lied. So, why is it not important to prove if he lied or not?
G It is important to prove if he lied.
P Ok, good. So, alright so there we go! Heʼs lying in a lot of different areas on that report-
G -Ok and so how do we show heʼs lying?
P Well, we can talk to witnesses. Thatʼs why I wanted to get-
G -And then we talked to a couple of the witnesses and weʼre not subpoenaing, you know records of customers there. I think thatʼs frivolous.
P Itʼs [ frustrated sigh ]... you mean the witnesses are the security people?
G The witnesses that they called are the security people. You know anyone else who
was there? P Yes!
G Who else was there?
P There was about fifteen people there. There was store emp-
G -Do you know their names?
P How would I know their names? These are...these are, uh..thatʼs why we would go for the records to find out who shopped there.-
G Iʼm not doing that.
P Why not?
G Because I think thatʼs frivolous.
P Itʼs frivolous to find out what happened? Itʼs frivolous-
G -Itʼs frivolous to request records of customer transactions for..we donʼt know what theyʼre gonna say. If you...if you said, you know “I saw my buddy. I saw Joe Smith. Joe Smith was standing right behind the cop when this whole thing happened.” We could get Joe Smith.
P I..I...Iʼm having a difficult time understanding why you have to know the witnesses. G Because you canʼt just..you canʼt do a dragnet and pull all these people in.
P Thereʼs not-
G [ inaudible ]
P You canʼt call a dozen people in? You canʼt ask employees of the store who witnessed it?
G We..weʼre asking who [ inaudible ] employees [ inaudible ] I donʼt know if he asked ʻem. I donʼt know if [ inaudible ] anybody else witnessed it.
P Iʼve been very clear that there was a lot of witnesses. Itʼs on his statement that there were many witnesses.
P So, those...that witness testimony would be important- G What do you think theyʼll say?
P I think theyʼll report exactly what happened. That-
G -Which is?
P Which contradicts the report, which says that um he didnʼt say I was under arrest, he just put his hands on me. He did not..listen, Iʼm a trained police dispatcher. I...I..I come from a military family. I respect cops all my life. If somebody says to me, ʻYouʼre under arrest!ʼ my first reaction...my..my reflex is to go like this [ Phelps puts hands above head very fast ]. Iʼve never been placed under arrest in my life. He didnʼt do that. I was telling him I had the right to get water and he said, “Ok,
put your hands on your head” and grabbed me. And without thinking, I just did a little Judo thing and...and thatʼs what happened. But he doesnʼt say that in the report, so we could...I think theyʼll say that he didnʼt say I was put under arrest. Um, I didnʼt turn and push him. What I did was this [ Phelps stands up and demonstrates physically as he describes] I...I went like this, I stepped back and went...I ʻwaxed offʼ, like a ʻwax on, wax offʼ thing. I mean, thatʼs a little murky on that particular thing- in a way itʼs a push but heʼs definitely not being accurate about the rest of it. I mean, could I look...take a look at that sworn affidavit. I donʼt have [ inaudible ] ... What I think they will say is that ... I think they will say that thereʼs been.. Let me ask you a question. If a...if a cop omits something from a police report in order to cover up a crime, is that perjury?
G No. I think itʼd have to be um...I think itʼd have to be more affirmatively misrepresent something deliberately.
P So, if he keeps something out of the record thatʼs not deliberately misrepresenting something?
G It...Itʼs...If itʼs something that..thatʼs [ inaudible ] , maybe. I donʼt see that, you know perjury at all. I donʼt defend perjury.
P Iʼm just asking, I mean if a cop keeps something out can he get in trouble for it, is that a crime?
G If the cop what?
P If the cop keeps something out of the report could get him in trouble?-
G Get in trouble?
P Yeah. If he committed a crime and he didnʼt put it in the report because he [ inaudible ]-
G -When he...you know, thereʼs another charge called ʻdereliction of dutyʼ, I think. [ inaudible ] Iʼve never heard of anybody [ inaudible ].
P So, perjury omission is not-
G -I donʼt think that thatʼs perjury, I think it has to be something [ inaudible ]. Maybe dereliction of duty.
P Ok! Then I think that the witnesses could facilitate the information that is not reported that would be important in determining the legality of that arrest.
P So, it would be important to get that witness testimony.
G So, if the..if the judge says your competent, then Iʼll go ahead and try to find it. I think that itʼs frivolous, I donʼt think youʼll win because [ inaudible ] City Market
[ inaudible ] trespass .
P Iʼm not entitled to uh that information of witness testimony? G I think that the.. that when we... if we-
P -Go to trial?..
G I wonʼt. Because I donʼt...I think itʼs frivolous. If we [ inaudible ] City Market for the record you know for the [ inaudible ] record, you know in that time they might be able to send a lawyer saying, you know “you donʼt get it”
P Ok, well that...that doesnʼt make me not want to get the evidence-
G [ inaudible ]
P That may be but I donʼt see first of all why not to do it. I donʼt...I donʼt really.. I canʼt see a reason not to get witness testimony and number...Even if we donʼt go and get the testimony of the shoppers, you certainly can get it from the employees. You can simply go, “Can you..Can you sh-...Whoever witnessed it can you please have them speak with his attorney.” I mean, that shouldnʼt be too difficult.
G Yeah, and Iʼll talk to Justin [ investigator on Public Defender team for Gilbertson on this case ] after this-
P -Great. So, youʼre gonna get some witnesses testimony from the guys who witnessed it? Employees? That werenʼt security? Just, like the workers?
G Iʼll see if they say if anybody was around.
P Ok, I know there was a.. a tall mulatto [ this unfortunate word is now recognized by Phelps as being inappropriate to describe a person of African-Caucasian descent
-ed. ] Um, mulatto...African-American, creole guy witnessed it about six foot three. He was there.
P Ok, so you will do that. Good, alright. What else? Alright, Nash. Alright. [ sigh ]
G What did Nash say?
P Nash...Nash told me that he would stand by a false positive.
G “He would stand by a false positive”?
G Is that the words that he used?
P [ scoff ] Right, no. Wh-.. let me explain what happened. I went in there, I did this test. G M-hmm.
P He...he totally misrepresented and misquoted what I said. And the misquotes that he used were all specifically related to the determination of competency. For example, not the determination of my history. My life history that he reported is almost entirely accurate to what I said, almost word for word. But when you get to the point where heʼs quoting me as to, uh you know my feelings about the arrest, what happened, what I said about the arrest- all of that stuff. Itʼs almost completely wrong. Itʼs just wrong. Heʼs actually basing his determination on false information. So, I told him that, I said, “Look..” besides itʼs got about forty spelling errors, itʼs got anacoluthons [ sic ] , itʼs got grammatical, syntactical errors that are...I mean abysmal, itʼs like in third grade level stuff. He calls me “Ms. Phelps” in it, um...he truncates very important speech, he omits very important things such as my feelings about uh responsible medication- I donʼt want to have sodium fluoride compounds, um which he wants to force me to use. So, he also violated HIPPA law. He told me, um specifically that he was going to get information to get my signature to talk to my Mom. This is a very sensitive subject with me and um, you know sh-...she... I said, “Look, I donʼt want you talkinʼ to her. If youʼre going to talk to her I only want you to have very specific questions and you tell me what theyʼre gonna be and he told me what they were gonna be and then he had an hour long conversation after getting that signature. Um, he also told me that part of his process would be to witness me...to observe you and I together
communicating to determine whether or not I was capable of... and he did not do that. Um, his..his...his ... his report is ...is [ sigh ] swiss cheese! So, he actually told me to go ahead and correct those...the grammar and spelling errors. Get the incompetent and insane guy to correct his work. And that even if the facts change he will stand by his decision.
P So, heʼs standing by non-factual data um ... Itʼs not a good report. Iʼm not...I...Iʼm not going to be forced onto drugs. One of my whole...one of the whole points of me going to City Market was to regulate myself so that I wouldnʼt have things like sodium-fluoride compounds which are a neurotoxin and a drug. Thatʼs a...itʼs a sedative.
P Um, I mean theyʼre trying to say, “Go take drugs...you have to take drugs because you didnʼt want to take drugs.” So, Dr. Nashʼs report...the only real good thing is it says Iʼm suffering from major PTSD which is true and I can use that to get my license for cannabis. Or a permit, which would help for that which Iʼve appealed to the State Board for, incidentally. Um, so Nashʼs report is about 80% fiction. I have a major problem with it. I donʼt believe that he was...He calls me ʻdelusionalʼ. I donʼt actually have delusions. He calls me ʻdelusionalʼ.
G Iʼm sorry you spent your money on it. [ inaudible ]
P It got-
G -I can...I can tell ya on.. Iʼm gonna move the court to appoint a Guardian Ad Litem-
P -Iʼm getting.. Iʼm gonna..Iʼm getting a new attorney. Iʼm gonna..if youʼre gonna do that, Iʼm not gonna let you do that. I canʼt -
G -I...I should have appointed a Guardian Litem [ inaudible ]. So, for the fifteenth- P Mmm, youʼll be replaced.
G ...a Guardian Litem is there or you can hire your own lawyer.
P Iʼm getting a...Iʼm gonna have to if youʼre gonna do that. I am not going to go to a psychiatric institution. Iʼm not going to be taking drugs. And thatʼs the end of the
story. Do you believe, um.. What are the chances that Iʼd be hospitalized? That they force me into a hospital? I spoke with an attorney about that as a possibility.
G I...I donʼt know. Itʼs a possibility if..if you wonʼt take, you know take the medication [ inaudible ] thatʼs a possibility. Theyʼre bed space is limited. For someone who isnʼt out there, you know causing all sorts of problems-
P -Thank you.
G It...you know, theyʼve got people who need to be committed because theyʼre out, you know screaming at the walls and stuff like that. Youʼre not one of those people. Ok. Bed space is very minimal right now because [ inaudible ]
P They just fired 80 employees, yeah-
G -So, I cannot give you my guarantee about whether or not youʼd be hospitalized but I can say that based on what other people are hospitalized [ inaudible ] I do not think you would be hospitalized.
P Great! Uh, can you tell me uh in that case uh what...what the protocol would predictably be? Would it mean counseling, psychiatry..would they want me to take drugs?
G Step one would be, uh on the 15th uh there would be an order of non-hospitalization that I would find, that your Guardian would find that your attorney would find...that would mean you would have to engage in uh, psychiatric treatment probably at Howard Center.
P [ chortles ] I will not...I will not do that.
G Ok, thatʼs step one. Ok, you refuse to do it, they bring you back. They say, the person is not abiding by the order of non-hospitalization so that they..they request a hospitalization. Theyʼd wanna do that, theyʼd wanna say, “Yes, we wanna spend the money to put Dana Phelps in a hospital because heʼs not abiding by this” and [ inaudible ].
P Ok, um..thatʼs alarming to me. Um, I donʼt really see where Iʼm incompetent to begin with or where Iʼd need drugs or need to be returned to a state of competency. Iʼm not going to say anything different if Iʼm on those drugs. Um, let me think. Uh, ok thereʼs something else I wanted to bring up. Um... The managing attorney, she said that she had a...an ethical constraint for getting the evidence. She-
G -I donʼt remember..[ inaudible ]
Oh, I spoke with her at length yesterday.
P Um, let me ask you- is it legal to record a conversation? I read in the State of Vermont one party has to understand theyʼre being recorded, one doesnʼt. That thereʼs other stipulations, that you have to let them know and be [ inaudible ] with a ʻbeepʼ in the State of Vermont. Do you know about that?-
G -I donʼt know.
P You donʼt know that? Ok.. um. uh , let me see...There was a...thereʼs a crucial point, um.. Oh, yeah! Um, I spoke with an attorney today, a defense attorney. I do appreciate your time, I...I know, Iʼm...I just walked in, I didnʼt have too much prepared, but uh this attorney would not represent me as a defense attorney because he had an affiliation with City Market.
P Do you feel thatʼs a conflict of interest?
G For him it is.
P Would it be for anybody in the court system?
G For..if they were what?
P Like, members or had some affiliation?
G Um, if they were on the board?
P But not members of the co-op. They have to be pretty high up.-
G I donʼt..I donʼt know...I donʼt know if..that an ethical [ inaudible ] would [ inaudible ] be a member of the Co-Op.
P Oh, they could be sued.
G A member couldnʼt be sued.
P A civil..yeah, itʼs a co-op! You could make a claim on every member of the Co-Op for damages!
G The...every member of the Co-Op wouldnʼt be liable for damages.
P They wouldnʼt? Oh, ok.. I..I never checked that and I didnʼt claim that was true, you see? [ laughs ] Some things I just know are right and some things I donʼt and the ones [ inaudible as door knocking sound occurs ]
Margaret Jansch Hi!
J Hi, Dana. Iʼm Margaret Jansch we spoke yesterday- P Oh, good meeting you.
J ...but um the attorney whose office this is, is here and weʼre gonna have to [ inaudible ]
G I think um weʼre done for now.
P Yeah, thatʼs great! I appreciate you meeting with me! Thanks, man! G Youʼre welcome.
P Good to meet you, maʼam!
J [ inaudible ]
P Oh, can I get a moment of your time?
J Not right now.
P Alright, thanks... [ End ]